A couple of weekends ago I was able to talk with Jane Goldman the co-writer of Kick-Ass about the film, Hit Girl and working in the business. She works in London where she lives with her husband Jonathan Ross (of the BBC) and their children.
W&H: How did you make the leap to novels from journalism? That’s your progression, right?
Jane Goldman: I worked on a number of different publications; entertainment, music, women’s magazines and computer game magazines. Then the transition there was to non-fiction. Then to novels. Largely that was because I had kids and I wanted to carry on writing for a living but I didn’t want to be on staff someplace. Making the switch to writing books was obviously a very attractive one because you can do that from home while raising a family.
W&H: Why do you think you’re drawn to writing about young adults?
JG: That’s a very good question. Maybe in someway I missed out on that stage in my life, myself, so perhaps I’ve been internally fascinated by it. I went straight from school into work and marriage. At 16 I met my husband and was working full time. I missed out on a lot of the teenage years. I think it’s more actually that I’ve always just found teenagers outlook on life more interesting. It’s before people really have a chance to get bitter or cynical and just the way they see the world, its endlessly interesting. I guess I also have similar interests. I’m not childish or one of those embarrassing grotesque child-women. But I do enjoy genre movies, I enjoy gaming. But at the same time I’m not under any illusion. I’m not one of those perpetual teenagers. But I do enjoy the company of teenagers and I have teenage kids.
W&H: You talk about how you can channel an inner teenage boy. Are boys easier for you than girls?
JG: I don’t know. I get along well with girls and boys. I have male and female kids. No, I think it’s just maybe some of my personal interests do crossover with teenage boys interests maybe in a way that’s not as common for women. But certainly I have a lot of women friends who are gamers and are into science. I’m certainly not alone in that. But it certainly makes things easier.
W&H: It’s interesting because of the gender trends that are such bullshit to begin with.
JG: Absolutely. That’s why I feel slightly sheepish suggesting that computer games or science should be regarded as exclusively male. It’s kind of really wrong and certainly the way I raise my kids is to ignore any of those silly gender labels as much as possible. And that’s kind of the way I feel about the movie. The fact that people have said it is quite a boyish movie. I don’t know that it is. It’s like every girlfriend of mine that has seen it absolutely adores it and it seems so odd that we should be shoved into this odd corner where we’re expected to only enjoy dramas and rom-coms. It seems absurd, really. You don’t have to be a particularly masculine woman to enjoy a good story of any kind.
W&H: When I was watching the movie I thought the title should be, “Hit Girl Kicks Ass,” because she’s the hero of the movie.
JG: Absolutely. That’s the thing, she does. And no disrespect intended to Aaron (Johnson) who is a great actor. There’s certainly a lot of people who’ve said Hit Girl really steal the movie. I think it’s an unusual character. It really captures peoples imaginations. And in that sense she’s a very, very strong female character. In many ways, I find her a very empowering female character to watch because she’s not sexualized. I think often a man’s idea of what a strong female character in a movie is, is not the same as what I would’ve done with a strong female character in a movie. Often, when you have all that girls and guns nonsense it’s such a sexualized thing and it doesn’t really help any woman’s benefit. And I think that is what fascinated me about Hit Girl being so young. You’ve removed all of that sexualized stuff and what you’ve just got is a genuinely scary little anti-hero. She’s a real little female Han Solo, in a way that you couldn’t do if she was 18.
W&H: Or even 13 or 14….
JG: Well, sadly, yes that is absolutely true. Sadly that is kind of the age that girls appear to be ok to sexualize them at this age, which is horrifying, really. I think that’s what fascinated me about her age.
W&H: And she was 11 in the comic?
JG: I don’t know if it was specified in the comic but certainly the general idea was she was somewhere around eleven.
W&H: Let’s talk a little about Hit Girl. I think that is basically the issue that everyone is going to talk about – the language and the violence. I think the Hit Girl character touches a nerve in a way that no one else in the film does. The fact that she is just a brand spanking new character. Do you think that moves us forward? Will the violent stuff hurt girls? This isn’t a movie for kids, per se. But they’re going to see it.
JG: First and most important thing, I think that this movie was never intended to be a movie for kids and quite correctly it has an “R” rating. That was absolutely our intention to make a movie for older viewers and if someone under 17 wants to see it, then I think that’s a decision of their parents and it’s the parents job to decide if that’s the right thing. To me, I find it astonishing that people find it threatening. I’m so used to seeing women and children as the victims of violence, I find it really depressing that when they’re the perpetrators of it, that’s when people get up in arms. It really feels wrong. We’ve seen children abused, murdered and abducted in films but no one seems to bat an eyelid. I do think that’s an indictment of our society, sadly. It washes over us when women and children are victims and it appears to be people only wake up when women are actually committing violent acts. The movie is intended as entertainment it’s not supposed to be a comment on society. But for people to express any moral outrage seems to me to be a little misdirected.
W&H: People are going to be very nervous and upset and really circle in on this.
JG: I don’t know. I think on paper this can sound really threatening but I have yet to have a conversation with someone who has seen the movie and felt really uncomfortable with what we portrayed on the screen. I think the humorous tone of the movie does a great deal to leaven the violence and I think that’s what is missing when people are merely describing it to each other and finding the idea potentially disturbing or threatening. I think when people see it and see the humorous tone, it really does smooth things out. They realize it’s entertainment and it doesn’t leave a nasty taste. I certainly don’t think violence is the answer to combating bullying. But I think it’s clear that it’s a little throw-away gag at the end about Hit-Girl’s character, which fits in with the storyline.
But I think the fact is, she’s not portrayed as the average child. I think it’s very clear she is not meant to represent every girl. She’s an unusual character and therefore it’s a joke involving a very unusual character. I don’t think that there’s any suggestion that we’re saying that this how we think society should be. If any one came out of the film feeling that they wanted to try and fight crime and or try to become involved in violence. I would say that they hadn’t understood the film. To me, the consequences in the film… if anything, I would think it would put them off. I think generally the tone of the film leavens something that could seem threatening on paper.
W&H: Just prepare yourself for the right wing in this country. They don’t necessarily watch any of these movies but they do criticize them.
JG: It would certainly be naive to think that no one will have an issue. But I think that’s really a wider issue. The great thing about this country is that you have the First Amendment. People can say this is not for my taste but nobody has the right to stop the film from being made and to stop other people from seeing it. We’re talking about censorship issues there and I don’t think there’s no reasonable argument for even raising that. Is someone knows it not going to be their cup of tea, they really don’t have to see it.
W&H: A lot of female writers are stuck in what I call the “gender ghetto” of the romantic comedy type stuff. You’re not a part of that at all. Why do you think women get stuck so much in that genre? And how did you avoid it?
JG: I don’t know if women who are in that genre feel stuck. Maybe they really enjoy it. It may also be, if those are the movies they enjoy watching then I hope those are the movies they’re writing. I think it would be sad for any writer who really wanted to be watching and writing other things but who was actually trapped in them, maybe that’s generally their preference. I wouldn’t want to write something I wouldn’t want to watch. But I am aware that I had a great advantage in having started off in things were more genre but hadn’t been pigeonholed. Every day I rejoice when my agent calls me up and says you’ve been offered this action movie or this horror movie you would very much expect a male writer to be offered. And it absolutely makes me jubilant to not be trapped in that.
But you’re absolutely right. There’s things female writers I know get offered are usually not the things the male writers tend to get offered. And I have been very fortunate in that I do appear to get offered things that would more usually be offered to a male writer. I suppose it’s like with actors. As a writer you can get type cast as well. People think it’s something that you do well then you’ll get offered more of the same, I guess. I suppose if someone writes romantic comedies wonderfully they’ll get offered more romantic comedies.
W&H: The Debt is clearly a departure for you in terms of your writing, or do you not think it is? And do you know the status of the film right now?
JG: Yes, it’s finished and it was directed by John Madden. We don’t have a confirmed release date but I believe it’s later this year. But yes, it was sort of a departure but then in many ways Kick-Ass was so different from Stardust, the screenplay I had written. And The Debt, is different from both of them. And actually, the one I just finished is different from all three, so I’ve been very fortunate.
W&H: Is that The Woman In Black?
JG: It is.
W&H: What is that about?
JG: That’a a Victorian ghost story. An intelligent horror, I would say. But Kick-Ass has been the one I’ve been most deeply involved in because I was co-producer and I was very, very emotionally connected with it and very, very proud of it. And right now it’s a very exciting time. I’ve lucky to have this much variety.
W&H: You wrote the screenplay for Kick-Ass and Stardust with Matthew Vaughn. What was the experience writing doing a solo script (The Debt) versus doing it with a partner?
JG: The way Matthew and I work together, we’re not a writing team in the traditional sense of sitting in a room together, doing it like that. I think he comes into very much from a directorial point of view and it’s about him having an idea in his head how he wants to tell the story and me having a lot of space and free reign to actually write the full draft and we go back and forth a lot. It’s a very nice and natural partnership.
W&H: Do you have any more desires to produce?
JG: Yes, I really enjoyed producing. I produced stuff for TV as well. I think it’s really interesting. I think women make great producers. I hate to be sexist but I think there’s something about producing that is very well-suited to the female mind.
W&H: It’s the multi-tasking.
JG: Yes, definitely the multi-tasking and the nurturing, and the being tough when you have to. It’s a challenge that I really enjoy. It’s something that I really enjoy doing and hope to do more in the future.
W&H: What advice do you have for women writers? Especially ones who want to write outside typical women’s types role.
JG: It’s a difficult one. I think trying to have a good piece of work that is not regarded as typically female material probably helps. I’ve had other women say I’m just going to write and I do think you do get a different reception if people think you’re a woman, which is terrible. But I think the important thing is to just write the stuff you want to see and that you would like to watch. I certainly have been fortunate in that I don’t think I’ve hit any barriers. Certainly the stuff I get offered now is the stuff they offer to the male writers. I think any producer or studio is going to try and get someone who is right for their project. And if the only stuff they’ve seen of yours is a rom-com or a kitchen sink drama, than you’re not going to be offered Transformers 3, not that any one would want that. I guess it’s just a matter of having appropriate material for people to see that you’re capable of writing whatever genre you want to work in.
Transcribed by Stephanie Webster
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I love, love, LOVE her last answer and agree 100%. I love women that kick ass but there is definitely this trend in both films and television where a woman is only allowed to kick ass if she’s also being sexualized while doing so. Look at Angelina Jolie, Halle Berry, Charlize Theron’s action roles, or look at Tarantino’s Kill Bill movies or even Death Proof. It’s great to see strong female roles but for once can it NOT be about how pushed up their boobs are or how tight their catsuit is as well??? You see the same trend in comic books, where the male characters are drawn in a way that makes them look strong and tough, and the female characters are drawn in a way that makes them look like porn stars–even if it doesn’t make any sense logically for a superhero.
Btw I’m insanely excited for kick-ass and can’t wait for tomorrow to see it. :)
Great interview, and now I am even more excited to see the movie!
To Chris Evans
I never really got the impression that Tarantino grossly or cynically sexualised any of the female characters in KILL BILL. Indeed, imo, it was the most credible female oriented action since ALIENS partially because of that.
To Chris Evans
I never really got the impression that Tarantino grossly or cynically sexualised any of the female characters in KILL BILL. Indeed, imo, it was the most credible female oriented action flick since ALIENS partially because of that.
Hey, superb writing.
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