(AP Photo/Chris Pizzello)
Here’s a doozy. Leave it to Jessica Wakeman via the frisky to get some juicy news. This time in a conversation she had with Margaret Cho, Margaret started talking about women comedians and how straight women are less successful in the comedy business than lesbians and women with fluid gender identity (like her.)
Here’s what she said:
I think the comedy community is not supportive to women in comedy…It’s interesting; a lot of women who are successful in comedy are lesbians. Or they have a fluid kind of gender identity, like I do.
But you can’t really be a successful female comic if you give a s**t what guys think at all. So a lot of heterosexual women end up dropping out because they just care too much about what guys think. I think that’s why there’s always lesbians who take over because they don’t care. It’s just an element to their personalities that helps them get by. That’s the closet explanation I can see. The women comedians that are out there generally are gay. The community itself is not supportive to women and so you don’t have it on the inside and you don’t have any kind of building or a connection; it’s just hard.
What do you think? Do straight women comedians temper their comedy to be liked by guys? I think that Tina Fey, Amy Poehler and Sarah Silverman are hysterical, but Kate Clinton, Sandra Bernhard, Lily Tomlin, Suzanne Westenhoefer and Judy Gold all kill. And we can’t forget the fact that Rosie O’Donnell and Ellen Degeneres both used to do stand up.
Is his even a helpful conversation to have and who are your favorite female comedians?
Frisky Q&A: Margaret Cho Talks Homicidal Exes And Camel Toe (The Frisky)
{ 12 comments… read them below or add one }
I, too, have noticed that a lot of very successful female comics & stand-ups are lesbian or bisexual (or gender-fluid).
I dont know if Cho is right about some straight female comics being insecure about what other guys think of them. on another hand, that sounds like a bullshit stereotype that would be pushed toward by straight dudes.
It seems like Cho is deflecting from frat-boy male group think (or just straight up sexism) in the industry, which I think is the real issue, and it looks like she’s “blaming the victim,” if you will. There are a lot of funny women on the circuit. But they don’t get the gigs and/or TV specials that would blow them up to a mass audience.
Also, was she including Black comediennes in this? Because I think Mo’Nique, Loni Love and Aisha Tyler would disagree with this analysis (but yes, I know about Wanda Sykes).
I was just thinking about this the other day, but with a slightly different slant, that women who are funny are play funny characters, while the realm of observational comedy is ruled by men unless, as shown here, the woman is not seeking the approval of men — e.g., Paula Poundstone, Ellen DeGeneres, Rosie O’Donnell. Yes, it is threatening to men. Humor comes from anger and anger is very threatening.
I think it’s a very astute observation. There are exceptions to every rule, of course. I can see what Faith is saying in that some of the phrasing in the statement could be construed as victim-blaming, but I don’t really see it that way — I think it’s more of Margaret’s frank observation and analysis of a heteronormative dynamic.
I think there is also another layer to be added to this when it comes to race an ethnicity, as Faith also noted. I don’t know that the black comediennes listed there would necessarily disagree with Margaret’s statements. I think it’s quite fair to say that a woman’s ability to succeed in comedy depends on her capacity to hold her own against the boys’ club and not give a crap about what those boys may say or do against her. I certainly would be interested in hearing Aisha or Mo’nique’s response.
As for my favourite comediennes, I’m a solid fan of Sarah Silverman (more in principle than in practice — I don’t necessarily enjoy her show or all of her bits, but I support the concept of Sarah Silverman). I adore Mo’nique as well.
@Jenny: I brought up the Black comediennes because the ones I mentioned (again, with the exception of Sykes) are straight. So I think that shoots down Cho’s hypothesis. Furthermore, I would counter Cho to say that Black comediennes would overall have a HARDER time if they were queer, because that may turn off “traditional” Black audiences.
I don’t think black women comedians shoots down Cho’s reasoning at all. It’s on par with it. Her basic point is that successful female comedians have to be strong enough not to care what men think. Lesbians are successful because of this and I think black women too. All the black female comedians are strong, personality wise, and clearly don’t care what men (or anyone) thinks of them. So, I agree with Cho’s opinion.
It’s amazing how Margaret Cho can say things that are blunt and true in a way that has me rolling on the floor laughing. i love her in every way. Disclaimer – i am a Margaret Cho fan). i agree with you about the women comedians you listed who are hysterical and who kill. i do think that women comedians who are not completely straight sexually tend to let it all hang out a little more and agree with Set D.. i would add Sara Benincasa to your list as well.
The theory seems to make sense, but, it’s not true.
There are too many cases against it:
Lisa Lampinelli
Roseanne Barr
Joan Rivers
Caroline Rhea
Monique
Bonnie Hunt
Rita Rudner
Aisha Tyler
Janine Garafalo
Susie Essman
Sarah Silverman
Samantha Bee
Sarah Haskins (I think she’s straight ?)
all the straight women of SNL fame
Carol Burnett
Lucille Ball
just to name a few off the top of my head.
this comment really bummed me out. in western, maybe all, cultures, the male is the “norm.” it’s assumed to be universal. so, if men don’t think you’re funny, you’re not funny. if women think you’re funny, it doesn’t count. male audiences historically have had difficulty viewing an attractive woman who’s behaving as an attractive woman as funny, and women were too threatened and competitive to laugh, so women who were “genderless” were more successful… but it’s not because they didn’t care what men thought… it’s because they rarely did any comedy that dealt with sex or dating or being a woman. they spoke as a neutral person. most male comics used to, as well. in the 50′s, there weren’t any male comics talking from a position of sexuality, either. that changed in the 80′s for men, with the comedy boom, but not as much for women. that said, check out:
bonnie mcfarlane
mishna wolff
jen sincero
natasha legerro
shout out to joy behar, also
Cho has a point! Elizabeth Frank and Jenny see that, I think.
I’ve commented something to similar effect in the blog on DOUBLE STANDARD: SATC 2 v. GROWN-UPS. I feel that the women in SATC 2 take too seriously the rules that are made by men. They get socked by the bias against them because they follow too faithfully the rules and conventions made by men for the benefit of men, mainly. No surprise there.
Cho is on to something similar: women comedians have a hard time “because they just care too much about what guys think. I think that’s why there’s always lesbians who take over because they don’t care.”
Not that a woman comedian has to be lesbian to make it, but — just why, I ‘m not sure — but it’s true more lesbians JUST DON’T CARE about the rules men make. They go on with their profession by following their own rules.
I’ve never studied it in depth, but perhaps the topics or style of women comics is very different to that of male ones. Stand-up is so much different than a comedic role. I LOVE Tina Fey, and many other actresses who have a comedic gift and great timing, but I can’t really think of any female stand-ups I enjoy today. There are the classics–Joan Rivers (who’s still going, I know), Carol Burnett, and many more. Sarah Silverman, for an example of a modern stand-up, leaves me cold.
Please. Did you really expect her to say that the comedy establishment (I guess that would be *males* to you liberals) supports her? Her whole schtick is based on her left-wing, iconoclastic world view. OF COURSE she’s going to imply that female comedians have a harder time because of their male oppressors.
Can’t type anymore. I’m going to be late for my weekly neighborhood he-man women haters club meeting, where we plot to maintain the patriarchal hegemony.
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