Nell Scovell is no stranger to Hollywood. A 30-year veteran, she has worked on some of the most memorable shows in TV history, including “Murphy Brown,” “The Simpsons,” “Late Night with David Letterman,” and “The Muppets.” She was also the creator and showrunner of “Sabrina the Teenage Witch.” She collaborated with Sheryl Sandberg on her book “Lean In”, which resulted in a massive global movement. Scovell has also worked for Vanity Fair and Spy magazine and penned speeches for former President Barack Obama.
Scovell has taken moments — mostly funny ones — and put them in a new book, “Just the Funny Parts: … And a Few Hard Truths About Sneaking Into the Hollywood Boy’s Club.” It’s a raw and honest look at the gender dynamics she has experienced both in and out of the writers’ room throughout her career.
We sat down with Scovell to discuss her candid look at what she considers a male-dominated industry, and how having these conversations feels today in light of #MeToo and #TimesUp.
W&H: Your book’s foreword by Sheryl Sandberg seems very telling of your important collaboration with her. Was it partly your experience of co-writing “Lean In” that encouraged you to write this book at this particular time?
NS: It was. In some ways I see my life as a “Lean In” case study, which includes doing a lot of things right and making a ton of mistakes. I always say “Lean In” is the book I wish I had read at 25, not helped write at 52.
But I did see how so many of those themes played out in my life and especially in Sheryl’s 2010 Ted Talk. It was there that I first heard her speak about the fact that the most important real decision a woman makes is who her partner is. That one I nailed and one of the reasons I wanted to write my story is that my husband stayed home and was the primary caregiver for our two children. Gloria Steinem once said to him, “You’re the other half of the equation.” What’s even better was that he would say he was lucky because often men don’t have a choice, either.
When women stay home, it’s assumed. When men do it, it’s unheard of. Only four percent of dads stay home. There are more female CEOs than there are men staying home.
W&H: In the book you’re very honest about your experience as a female TV writer. What has the reaction been from within the industry, both men and women alike?
NS: Oddly enough, men seem to like the book even more than women. I think women nod along because it resonates. They think of their own stories and similarities. But for men, I think it’s really eye opening because my perspective in a way is so stereotypically male. The shows I worked on, being a sports writer, my love of science fiction — I think men relate to my interests and then they get to be in my shoes when I’m treated differently.
W&H: You talked a lot about the people you worked with. You must have an amazing memory.
NS: You know, I wasn’t keeping a journal, but they say trauma creates memories.
W&H: You put the good in the book, as well as the bad. How did you decide what to put in and what to leave out?
NS: Some of it was determined by what would resonate in 2018. Lin-Manuel Miranda, in his great University of Pennsylvania commencement speech, said that both the stories we tell and the stories we leave out are what resonate throughout our lives. This is so true — I really tried to strike a balance and I really wanted to focus on the funny parts.
However, there were some things that happened that I couldn’t ignore — things that weren’t so funny.
W&H: Was any of it left out because you were concerned about the reaction?
NS: Some stories are just so complicated, there’s no way to tell them in the full context that would be fair to all the parties. Those I left out.
W&H: You were a pioneer in the #MeToo movement with your experiences at a wrap party on the “Smothers Brothers” set with Jim Stafford, and of course David Letterman. Why do you think the rest of the world took so long to catch on to what you were already experiencing in the workplace?
NS: It’s a long time coming, and you can look at the data points along the way. Others have spoken out, too. I think the Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein situations were so egregious that you have this tipping point. One of my concerns is that because they were so egregious, we now feel that if a celebrity doesn’t rape a dozen women, it’s not so bad. I hope that people continue to surface not just the worst-case scenarios but all the scenarios.
One story I didn’t tell that I wanted to was when I was in the writing room on the set of “Coach,” where as a female employee, you had to be super tough. I was sick one Friday — so sick that I went into the bathroom, threw up, brushed my teeth, and went right back into the writing room like nothing had happened. I went home and was sick all weekend. Then I got to work on Monday, and one of the guys I worked with said, “Did you lose weight?” I said, “Yes, I was really sick all weekend.” He then said to me, “It looks good. You should keep it off.”
Those are the smaller moments that I don’t know how to describe 25 years later. He probably forgot it within two minutes, and it will live in my gut forever.
W&H: Do you think things would have been different for you today, like on the set of “David Letterman”?
NS: [Laughs] Like I’d be an employee of David Letterman — his new Netflix show has five executive producers and not a single female! But let’s continue with the hypothetical. He was very powerful. Mo Ryan wrote a great article a few months ago about the two sexual harassment suits that were brought against Brad Kern, the show runner for “NCIS: New Orleans.” I recently heard he’s being re-upped. So, I just don’t know.
W&H: What do you think of women in Hollywood today with the new addition of inclusion riders, as well as more women directing and entering the writers’ rooms?
NS: The sad part is that women are speaking out now because a lot of us feel that we have nothing left to lose. Things are so bad — Donald Trump is president, Harvey Weinstein got away with this, Bill Cosby got away with it for so long. We’re speaking up, we’re fed up — what’s the worst that could happen that hasn’t happened already?
I’m glad, obviously, that it’s happening. I will anxiously await whether it changes anything.
W&H: In the book, you talked about not being able to get that next directorial job, and it’s heartbreaking. It didn’t seem to just be about your gender, it was also ageism coming into play.
NS: Studies have shown men get promoted based on potential, and women based on experience. That makes it very hard to make a leap from writing to directing. Men do it all the time. When Aaron Sorkin said he was ready to direct, I’m sure he had a million offers. I fought hard for my first directing gig. I did well. I came in under budget. It was a success. And then nothing for eight to 10 years. And then again, I’d do it under not favorable experiences but would make my movie, and then nothing.
It’s really hard for me to look back on. I’ll never know if I would have become a really good director. I still sense that I might have. But you need your 10,000 hours to get really proficient at something, and I just couldn’t get that part of my career going. I’ve never had a single directing meeting scheduled by my agent. Every single directing opportunity I got myself or because of a female friend who recommended me.
W&H: Do you feel that women in Hollywood help other women in Hollywood?
NS: That’s what I’m most hopeful about. What I’m seeing now in the #MeToo and #TimesUp movements is support women are giving each other right now, and it’s beautiful. That’s the biggest shift I see. I think that Sheryl Sandberg gets a lot of credit for that. She’s someone who has walked the walk for so long and “Lean In” is really infused with that spirit.
W&H: Are you involved with any of the reboots of the shows you worked on?
NS: I’m not, but I’m eager to watch them all. “Sabrina the Teenage Witch” seems fascinating because they’re doing it as an hour[-long series], and I think that will feel very different. “Murphy Brown” will also be interesting. The one I don’t quite understand is “Charmed” — they’re saying it’s a feminist reboot, but the show was originally feminist. It was about the power of sisterhood.
W&H: Do you still have directorial aspirations?
NS: I do, and I’m eager to direct again. I have a stack of scripts, including a movie I wrote based on “Lean In” which is like a “Working Girl” movie — it has that kind of feel and it’s in turnaround at a studio. I would love to make that movie.
